Independent Contractor Vs. Employee

[sas35353535]

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[Unonimus Greg]

1) There is no such thing as a "fair" split
2)They don't sound like IC's to me.

Working on a % basis, they would never incur a loss.

Also, by supplying them all of the above, you violate the test of equipment provided. If you want to provide such things, you have to charge them an "equp rental / product fee" for each service.

I think you would be much better off structuring your situation as a sub-lease. You are leasing a "stocked" treatment room and the landlord provides the following - a set of sheets per treatment, 1 oz of Biotone per treatment (yes, you have to spell this stuff out or you will be on the hook for your lesees bathing their clients in essential oils.) etc.

The lease requires they be "open" during x - y hours on the following days, which corresponds to the shifts they want.

You can also require them to keep things neat and clean in their leased space as well as "common areas". You can't make IC's clean up common areas.

Problem is, you can't make lessees answer the phone or fold the towels of others - and I am not sure I would want them to do so. If you are all running your own business, it begs for trouble to have comingling of duties / client contact. I know, I sound like a paranoid spa owner; but one day one of the MTs is going to be broke and think it is your fault, which totally justifies whatever they do.

An alternative would be some sort of "cooperative", but that sounds way to crunchy for me to even contemplate.

 

[blondeee]

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[Pompal 09.]

What is this arrangement worth?

If you were an independent contractor and you had the following arrangement, what would you have the split perceneforum.xxxes be?

The establishment supplies oils, essential oils, sheets and laundry service for sheets, equipment, towels and other linens provided, table provided, office supplies provided, basically everything you need. Phone, computer, internet connection, even a scheduling service (which they would have to pay directly.)

If there is anything else they want and it is not provided, they need to get it on their own.

IC's would need to chip in with cleaning, folding towels, occationally answering the phone, sharing cleaning duties, etc...

IC's would be responsible for their own business cards and marketing material that they want different from what is in the establishment. IC's can either share advertising or advertise for themselves.

Sharing of treatment rooms:

IC's would have the room for a block of time. There are two treatment rooms to be shared. So, I believe the two rooms could easily support 3 full time MT's. Four might be difficult to arrange, but not impossible.

So, what do you think?
If you were an IC, and you could just walk into a place and start your business in a place as described above, what would a fair split be? What about having a minimum dollar amount as well?

This is actually quite similar to the arrangement that I had at my previous place of employment with the exception of my own business cards, (which I always thought I should have but they wouldn't allow), the need to advertise myself and our office was much larger than what you have. We had a 60/40 split, I got the 60%.

Quite honestly, after paying the rental on the room I have now, I only make a dollar less than I use to. However, now I have to advertise myself, wash my own linens and towels, buy all my own equipment, business cards, website, health insurance and find all new clients. While on one hand I like being on my own and not having to answer to someone else about what I do, (there was A LOT of politics there) I would much rather have all the big stuff taken care of by them. I guess it comes down to what an MT wants. Just my own pennies.

 

[Bella]

I have an arrangement that is a renter/IC combo. It's pretty hands-off, and to be an IC and not an employee, it needs to be. Maybe this'll help. My arrangement works like this:

Compensation: All payment for massage is processed through the facility. I fill out an invoice form every week that spells out who I massaged (just their name, so they can compare it with the front desk records), the amount the client paid, and the length of the massage. I get the entire amount, minus only $10 per hour for room rent and 15% "referral fee" which is not really a referral fee the way those fees are commonly understood. It basically goes for the receptionist, advertising (which they do) and whatnot.

Equipment: They supply the facility, the table, and the music. I bring everything else--sheets, lubricant, essential oils, pillows, bolsters, blankets, table warmers, whatever I want. (I am not requested or required to provide both oil and cream; what I use is what I use.)

Scheduling: I submit my availability for the coming week 1 week in advance. Once I commit to that schedule, I must adhere to it, barring any emergencies. If I don't have anything, though, I can call myself off and not come in. They're trying to change that last part, but I don't think they really can. They can't require you to be there if they have nothing for you and they're not compensating you for the time. Sure, there are examples of facilities who do exactly that and get away with it, and arguments could be made that it is "legal" simply because it's not necessarily "illegal", but to require someone to be there uncompensated for their whole "shift" starts to sound W-2-ish and NOT an IC. So I don't think it'll stick. The facility owner will eventually back down on this one; he has before.

Other duties: Since we're paid per massage and ONLY per massage, we are not required (nor can they do so!) to answer phones or do janitorial duties or whatnot. (We launder our own sheets on our own time at our expense, but that's the cost of doing business. We do not do anything at the facility but provide massage.) We go ahead and pick up the phone when we're in the office and the receptionist is occupied or on another line, but we're not specifically required to do that, either.

Promotion/Domain of Clientele: The records belong to the facility. We do not keep our own separate records, unless we see those clients outside of the facility, which I'll get to in a sec. The clients are sort of shared between us and the facility, because the owner does not actually care if we see the clients outside the facility. In fact, they encourage us to build clientele and take them with us. This comes in really handy when a client lives near my home studio (which is about 20 mins away from the facility with no traffic, and 45 mins WITH traffic) and doesn't want to drive as far. Or, they want an integrated massage like we offer instead of having to decide whether they want Swedish OR Deep Tissue (it's one or the other at the facility). Or, when they want a massage from one of us (my husband and I both contract there) but on a weekday evening, when we're not there (we're only there on Sat's) or on a Sunday (when the facility is closed altogether). Anytime we see someone in our private practice, even if they're our regular client at the facility, they fill out our separate paperwork the first time they see us privately, and we keep our own records every private session thereafter. Some clients go back and forth between seeing us at the facility and seeing us privately. Where we keep the records for that session depends on where they saw us that day.

Hope that helps
Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Glee]

Scheduling:If I don't have anything, though, I can call myself off and not come in. They're trying to change that last part, but I don't think they really can. They can't require you to be there if they have nothing for you and they're not compensating you for the time.

If you structure your arrangement as a sublease (you just need to check to see if your lease prohibits subleasing in any way, and if it does, see about subleasing parts and not the whole) you can state the hours of operation of the room they are leasing and require them to be there during those hours as a condition of the lease.

Almost every mall, shopping center or retail space requires certain hours of operation - very common practice in teh world of leases.

 

[The King Of Kings]

I worked in a situation very close to what you describe in your initial post, some years ago.

It was quite simple. We did a 60/40 split - therapist got the 60% + tips, set the hours said therapist would work, did laundry there, and was on call, but not expected to take the calls, unless it just worked out.

 

[cant_think_of_1]

I think I found a solution for my IC problem.

First tho, the reason I would rather go with IC's is because of the hassle of paperwork and taxes involved with employees. Personally, I dont think I am up to the time and headache involved. Lord knows I am far from being the worlds most organized person!

Truth be said, what I am looking for is an employee. So, if I want an employee, I have two options. I can either put up with the headache and paperwork or find someone to do it for me. I vote for the second option.

Enter http://www.theemployergroup.com

They are the true employer, not I. They pay all the taxes and even issue checks. Technically, I would in effect be a "supervisor" of their employees who are working for me. Kind of like an employment agency, except I can find my own employees.

Yes, it does cost something. Whatever I pay my employees I would have to kick in 20 to 25% more to cover taxes and fees. This group also has insurance for my potential employees as well. Heck, if I incorporated myself, I think even I could be an employee of my corporation! I would have to check into that to be certain though.

I asked if they had any experience with massage businesses or spas. GUESS WHAT?? The work with a couple Massage Envies!! Isnt that a hoot??

 

[tkp]

Employees are not that hard to manage, paperwork wise.

Quickbooks makes payroll a breeze.

We use it for our spa - takes less than 30 minutes a week to pay 10 employees and file the monthlies and quarterlies.

You will probably end up paying dearly for very little time. A few hours with a CPA who knows QB can get you started.

If all this admin company does is pass on the costs of taxes and benefits to you, then every penny you pay them is for shuffling paper.

 

[Boozette Jones]

I second what R&R said - payroll isn't that difficult, once you are all set up... (this coming from a gal who hates paperwork, and did payroll & quarterlies for the last company that I worked for)

If the quarterly paperwork is freaking you out, you could also hire a bookkeeper (less costly than a CPA) to come in the the four times a year that your quarterlies are due, again, much less $$$$ than the 20-25% that you would be paying the company that you listed above (you can do it!!)

 

[ajwooding]

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[Pompal 09.]

So you are really only talkinga bout $20 per employee per pay period to ahave someone else do this for you.

Sounds too good to be true. I don't know how they would make any money doing this at those prices, not to mention taking on the payroll liability risk of you not paying them on time, etc.

 

[jay7]

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[030407<3]

$40/month gets you the workmans comp too? If so this is a great deal. Or is WC an extra fee?

 

[cadisneygirl]

If you end up using the service, I am sure enough people here would like to know how it works and get the name of the company for future use.

You're great at follow up for your posts, so I look forward to the final arrangement and info that will follow regarding this company.

 

[Tater Salad]

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