pain returned after physio

[Josh Am]

can anyone offer me some advice please. I injured my lower back 9 weeks ago. The first 2 weeks I couldnt move. After that the pain was intermittent but mild. I received my first physio 2 weeks ago, during physio I experienced pain down the front of my leg. I told the physio, she didm`t say anything though. The following day I had the pain back in my back but more throbbing then it had been previous to receiving physio. I am due to go back to my GP on Tue and I had planned to return to work because I felt that I was coming on well. I don`t know what my doctor will now think when I tell her that my pain has become worse since the physio. I`m quite stressed about it actually. Can anyone shed some light on this. I now have the throbbing pain for 2-3 days in a row and I have had to increase my pain relief

 

[Joel W]

With the little info given, then I'm sorry - I'm unable to shed any more light on your back problem.

Where you, by any chance lying on your front & pushing up with your arms, when you felt the pain in the font of your thigh?

Tell your GP what you have told us & any other details that you or they think relevent. Physio is not going to be a quick fix, but if you are seriously concerned that it is not helping you could ask your GP if they can refer you to an osteopath. Some areas have this on the NHS, but otherwise you'd have to go private.

Have a check through some of the other Threads on Back Pain and see if any of those are of any help.

I've just spotted that you were enquiring about a 'slipped disk' injury. These are usually indicated by leg symptoms, that are usually worse than the back itself. The proper term is a prolpased disk (try a HP search on that) and the sort of leg symptoms include, actual weakness (not from pain alone), areas of numbess, loss of knee or ankle jerk reflex. Also a straight leg raise test where the physio, doctor or osteopath raises one leg for you, when lying on your back to see how & where it hurts in the leg and at what point of the raise. []

Some disk injuries have little or no pain, but they are much less common.

Andrew.

 

[M.Y.]

LolaRose,

Sorry to hear about your pain, read this link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3684096.stm

May be worth seeing a Chiropractor or Osteopath instead!

Hope your GP can help and you feel better soon

Karen x

 

[Alexei]

no I wan`t lying down pushing up. I was standing with my hands on my side and she had me stretching over to the right side and the the left side. The pain wasn`t in my thigh it was in the front of the leg below the knee

 

[Jonesy]

Sorry for the misread leg issue!

This could be a disk injury, but more likely a facet joint irritation or 'lock' that is giving referred pain to your leg.

Does bending forward or backward give the same pain?

Which way were you bending & which leg were you feeling it in at the time.

Interesting article Karen - will have to read that one later. I used to work part time for the NHS in a Physio Dept, so have a fair idea of the in's & out's of Physio.

Andrew.

 

[Synsane]

No Andew, bending forward or backward does not cause the leg pain. I first experienced the leg pain when the physio was asking me to put my hands on my side and move my waist over to the right side and then to the left side. This is when I fely the pain down my shin area. I am also concerned that I am having pain in my back that I thought was on the mend. Again this has flaired up badly since the physio. I feel as though my doctor will think I am at it because the last time I saw her I was on the mend. Well, I was still having twinges but taking the painkillers helped. This new pain is more throbbing and lasting much longer.

 

[Coirecbres]

Sorry, not much help really.

Sounds like you need to be examined properly, as already said.

Don't assume your GP will think you are swinging the lead. If you don't go back, they will assume that you are better.

Andrew.

 

[Cindy Crump]

Lola Rose
Sorry to hear about your troubles. There seem to be a number of suggestions and guesses out there. How about consulting a Kinesiologist who can determin via testing your body whether it is actually due to a slipped disc, a vertebrae out of alignment, a muscle spasm which effects a nerve or any other structural, nutritional or emotional issue.

Keep the guess work out of it!

love & light

 

[Yogart n]

Lola have you had physio only?

I was rushed into hospital under general anastetic 6 weeks ago, had every test under the sun, and much medication.(over here the treatment for back ache is rest!) diagnosed with pressure on membrane surrounding spinal chord. Physio aggrevated it , pains moved around and had some numbing ,however went on to have Hydro therapy, one session seemed to help instantly, however 5 hours later I was crying again! second session helped and managed to do some normal things for a few hours a day.< except than sleep and sit! 3rd week ( 2x weekly seeions of 1 hour!) back to normal almost.. cant sit on hard surfaces, or lift heavy objects but im now hoovering and shopping again. Physios attitude was not to jugde recovery on how much pain I have but on how much I can do, back still niggles and doesnt feel like it was before but by god its much better and I can cope with it,good luck -Nikki.

 

[Soong Bae]

Hi hows your back now? Just reading through my old posts and found this one.............. Im fully recovered, I had 6 treatments, followed the exercise sheet given to me, and as soon as I was able to reach my own feet I had some much needed reflexology(which im still doing) I wonder really if it was my body saying WOA! because i was doing to much and not maintaining my own health. Leson learnt anyway.......... Really looking after myself now as it was rather scarry for me , I must admit I feel 'discomfort' alot these days but I think it is beacuse I'm sensitive there now..........and the fear factor my physio suggested.....back locks up, brain cant rationalise why.........PANIC! whatever im good now, hope your better to -Nikki

 

[ioeovuktiqliraerh]

I don't know where in the world you are, but most of the western world has moved on from the 'rest' thing for back problems, except maybe for some die hard GP's.

It sounds like you had a disc prolapse or herniation (bulge) in the upper lumbars, that are less common than those in the lower lumbar spine. I'm not defending physiotherapists, as they should have carried out the appropriate tests, but it being a more uncommon senario, then they presumably missed it.

The cord terminates in the upper lumbar spine and the membranes that envelop the cord are called the meningese. (Spelling's near enough).

The area may well be sensitised, as this does happen with some (more detail on that in another Thread in this Forum), so the best thing to do is try not to be over protective of the area.

Re. Energy for Health's comment -


* Discs don't slip in or out - this is an old defunct term that is misleading as it doesn't actually represent the nature of the problem and feeds the myth that discs do slip.

* Vermassageplanetrae physically do not go out of alignment, again this is a misleading term that doesn't represent what actually happens and I think grew from chiropractors and I believe some still use this expression. Some study of the spine will find that all the vertebrae are interlocked with their adjacent vertebrae above & below and short of there being a serious fracture, then they simply cannot go 'out of alignment'.

* Muscle spasm is easily identified if you actually palpate (feel) the area and will affect a whole mutlitude of nerves and hormonal responses. If you look a little deeper you'll find that the muscle spasm is a direct result of an underlying problem i.e. a 'facet joint lock'. Any nutritional or emotional factors IMO are more likely to be contributing (or underlying) factors, rather than secondary to the condition.

Andrew.

 

[**444**]

Hi thanks for that -just read it threw, Im in Germany. Yes they just give you some liquid that makes you sleep.
,Strang senario almost sureal, it went in this order just so you dont get confused, the physio was the last port of call. German hospitals are opposite from uk.

am-Saw GP via military HC, given diazapam to stop muscle spasms 4 hourly + co-codamin 6hourly for pain.
pm - Casualty Mil hospital, given volterol shot in butt for muscle acute muscle spasm-returned home

am- diazapam+ co-codamin
pm-gp called:ambulance called
pm-exrays at civillian hospital, drip for pain relief.

pm- uk start with vissual and work inwards, here they start with worst serario and come outwards.was treated for spinal injury and given general to be moved , xrayed , MRI'd for skeletal, bloods -drip for pain-slept.

am drip for pain relief-slept
pm -slept mostly- cathetar removed at my request up fro toilet and collapsed.drip removed-caused low blood pressure
pm liquid pain relief
slept
am-liquid + MRI scan
pm- liquid-sleppt
examined by Neurologist-slight lack of responses in lower limbs, numbing of skin in umbiliacal area.
advised rest and pain relief(via translators)

medication given 9 days
slowly pain and muscle spasms ease.

discussion of tick bit 5 weeks previously.
transfered to general medical unit
tested for tick bit
gout
MRI-kidneys liver spine -Lumbar area.

More liquid meds. started to wory as shaking and slower in movements- start to water plants with German liquid and take Mil issue meds. advised having lumbar punctur tuesday, and mri of head and neck for nerve and blood flow. (panic)

48hr later much improved shake stopping, head clear , wanting some answers.Dont fancy those tests ,and was told by another patient that they' milk it 'to get payments so i
discharge myself. ( pease take into account i was pretty mashesd on meds so the order may vary slightly for tests)

back to Mil HC and explain 14 days in hospital.......... pain , still tipped over and forward hurts like****.
refered to top Mil Physio at Mil Hospital, 8.30 am

Examined thouroughly muscular and skeletal( didnt happen prior)
stiffness in thoracic area, manipulated whilst led on back- hand behind head, elbows touching ,towel under problem area,
deep 4 crack movement whilst breathing out.
Hydro therapy in pool, and continued 2 x weekly, then 1 x weekly.
Movement became wider and less pain full- occasional twinge but nothing major. NO previous back trouble.

I am still not given a reason as to why this happened as it just came from nowhere, however we had just moved and id had spent several weeks packing and shifting furniture,boxes ect. im going to print off your post to take to my review next week so will ask some questions and get back to you. thanks though. and im doing good . Im now morking and now have the added experience of understanding back pain! so at least I can empathise if needed.-that was tongue in check by the way.

Your wording is very good and actually going back threw the thred help.However it is not the lumbaar area its thoracic. and for the muscle spasms- oh yes The nurse at casualty said she could feel the heat and spasm tighten in contraction hence the injection. to be honest it ws the only drug that helped, returning home i opted for cold turkey of meds. which left me the hot water bottle and crying, paracetamol was my limit. however as soon as the hydro strted i stopped being in agony. Now doing exercises and yoga walking driving ect all were imposible before, sorry for the flow of my writing but i write as i would talk...._happy soles'

 

[Aqua girl]

With the extra history, then yes it would be your lower thoracic spine (TSp). Of the signs and symptoms the only ones that would be regarded most serious would be the umbilical area numbess and the reduce reflex (response) in the lower limbs.

The latter could also be caused be the cocktail of drugs they had you on by then, unless they were reduced prior to that.

Did the MRI not include the lower thoracic area, then cos that's where you'd expect the problem to be given the above.

Sounds like you saw a good physio. Was it the lower TSp that they manipulated?

And did this help or do you think that it was solely the hyrotherapy that helped?

On the info given I suggest that the most likely problems would be either a facet joint lock in the lower TSp, or a disk injury in that area. The latter is less likely if they scanned that area and found nothing, but it wouldn't definitely rule it out. I'll explain.

If a disk is just herniating (also called bulging disk) and has not fully prolapsed, then it's quite possible that when your lying down for the scan, then it takes some of the pressure off it so the bulge may reduce to appear normal. [&:]

Another differentiation between disk and facet joint (but not definitive either) is the length of time of recovery - disks usually take longer. From your recovery time it could be either.

As to why it happened - most often it seems that these things are just waiting to happen, then doing something relatively minor, like picking up a feather could finish it off. []

If it was a disk, then it maybe that you're susceptible to disk injuries (don't know age, etc), but there are things that can help on that front, if that's the case.

Why was it so severe? Probably because it was so close to your diaphragm and anything threating in that area is percieved by the system as threatening your ability to breathe, so system can go into panic stations and overload. []

Andrew.

 

[yen]

yes the manipulation helped instantly - warming sensation foling over my back like warm water.

No the MRI first was Lumbar area- I was unconsious and only knew afterwards- they assumed because I couldnt get up and the muscle spasms were the whole left side of vertabral column that it was lumar area.. Language barrier didnt help issues either.

Yes its not so bad now although I feel sometimes it is about to happen again so i reposition myself, am continuing yoga,pilates and the cross trainer. in moderation...............when I have the time or energy!

But i am doing the physios stretches- yes he was good- the best the forces have out here by all acounts!

 

[Vesloarenk]

facet joint lock - thats the words used -sorry was rushing-stil no sugestion as to why or how though.

 

[REZIDENT EVIL]

my lower back pain continues, however, the pain and discomfort is controlled with pain killers, taken daily. My real problems start if I am sitting too long, for example, I went to the pictures and after 30 minutes I had to leave. The discomfort was too bad and that is with pain killers. Also, if I do alot of bending that can start it off. Walking is fine. I personally think that I will never have pain free moments that I enjoyed prior to my injury

 

[skycastle]

To Lola Rose



If you think like that then there's a lot greater chance that that is how you'll end up! []

I cannot emphasise enough the dangers of longterm use of pain killers and especially pharmaceutical anti-inflammatories! []

Do what you must in the meantime, but do try and relax generally and especially the painful area.

One way to do this is to actually focus on the pain an intensify it in your mind and keep intensifying it, making it worse and worse. You should reach a point where it gives up and eases a bit.

If you're not getting any help from your GP, then go see an osteopath. It sounds like a simple facet joint lock. Simple in that there's probably no damage or injury, but they can be the most painful of problems. The joints just need to be released and to be kept moving, which may take several sessions.

The longer you leave it, then the more your nervous system will make the area more sensitive and prone to irritations in that area.

To Happy Soles.

See above plus & Re.

Bending, lifting, twisting, sleeping awkwardly and usually with a background of having various other stiff joints in the area that are not necessarily sore or inflammed, so you'll not be aware of them. The aggravated one may have been one of the remaining mobile ones that was straining to compensate for the lack of movement in the stiff joints. And then one day you do that one thing extra or seemingly nothing at all and it's ability to cope is pushed too far and whammo! []

I'll not bore you with the theories of the underlying mechanisms of this other than to say that they can cause severe local muscle spasm that keeps the joint locked and it becomes a vicious circle. It may calm down if you do the right things, but it probably won't release witout a bit of outside help.

Oh and the two other major contributing & maintaining factors are;

A) Stress / anxiety &
B) Background inflammation (arthritis or more specifically spondylitis, that may be subclinical i.e. your doctor may not spot it and you may not ordinarily be aware of it. Morning stiffness would be a clue to it being present.) Suggest you check the Arthritis & Allergy Forums for that one.

Andrew.

 

[Enzyme 304]

Hi Lola Rose
I agree with Anahata about the pain killers.
There's just no reason to assume you will never have pain free moments again - it's so rarely the case!
I deal with this kind of back problem all the time, and it responds well to treatment. Keep you back gently moving, and please get yourself along to an acupuncturist or osteopath. There's no need to carry on suffering or using meds.

Best wishes
Aragorn