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Arent you afraid of catching herpes?

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I really want to see a particular SP for the first time but whats holding me back if the fear of herpes. I read that maybe 50% of sexually active people have genital herpes and since SPs see maybe 5 different men a week (a day sometimes) there's a good chance a SP might have it. Especially since condoms don't necessarily protect against them.

Also with bbbj with a well reviewed SP what are the chances of getting a STI? A scenario I would like to present is that of a SP who does back to back bookings. Say if client A has gonorrhea and infects the SP during their session and then 15 minutes later the SP is with client B. Will client B catch something guaranteed?

Are catching herpes, gonorrhea and other STIs pretty much going to happen if you receive a bbbj from a SP?

I guess what Im getting at is there any way to alleviate the worries of catching from SPs? The one I plan on seeing is well reviewed but goes back to back bookings.
 
Get out of this hobby right now, and take up CROSS STITCHING.
 
A few points:

1. There is no such thing as safe sex, except self-loving (ie, masturbation).
2. There are ways however to practice safer sex. Using condoms and other barriers (such as dental dams and gloves) is a good way to protect yourself from most STI.
3. Yes, you can catch an STI from getting a BBBJ (although the risk is significantly lower for the receiver than the giver), and theoretically at least, you could also catch herpes from a covered BJ (assuming that your partner is infected, has lesions in her/his mouth, and that those lesions come into contact with your uncovered skin, such as BLS). Herpes is one of those few STI which can be transmitted through skin contact alone, rather than through blood routes such as mucuous membrane and open wound. But this also means that you could catch herpes from fucking someone who is infected, even is you're wearing a condom.
 
So does that mean that SPs have a good chance of having it? Considering the amount of men they see and condoms not helping? I mean that in the most respectful way possible.
 
There isn't any method which is 100% guaranteed not to transmit when contact happens between partners.

Seeing as SP's are engaging in a high rate of sexual activity well it is safe to say that they are in a higher risk group.
 
:lol:


And of course everything Gen sez.

Get:
Twinrix shots
anti-pneumonia shot
regular flu shots

As far as your risks with SPs- stick to the QUALITY gals and you are likely at LESS risk :great:than playing the bars for "Girls Gone Wild". They are much more meticulous with general hygiene and protection than the civilians.

STAY AWAY- from druggies, man sex, sex in or SPs from Africa. (DUH!)
 
Well, since, as you mentioned yourself earlier in the thread, current estimates suggest that around 50% of the population is carrier of the herpes virus (which doesn't necessarily mean that they will pass it to others), I would think that there is a good chance that some SPs are carriers as well. I'm not convinced however that there are more at risk than the general population of being carrier. Based on my anectodal experience and some studies, I would actually believe that they are less likely to be carrier than the general population.

As others have mentioned, escorts (and I'm talking here of those who work in decent conditions, who aren't forced or pressured to offer certain risky services, and who are in a position to refuse to provide services to clients who display signs of unhealthy behaviours, lack of hygiene, and/or who show potential symptoms of STIs) tend to be more informed about safer sex practices and risks, and they tend to practice safer sex more rigorously than the general population. They also tend to get tested more regularly, and more thoroughly, than the general population and therefore get treated for any infections.

As I said, the above is based mostly on anecdotal evidences from my own experience and from what I have seen around me (both among my "civilian" friends and among other SPs around me). A recent study done in the Netherland seem to align with this anecdotal evidence:

According to their analysis of the numbers of patients seeking treatment in 2007 and 2008 at three sexual health clinics in South Limburg in the Netherlands, they found that
I haven't read the study and don't know the detail of its methodology and whether these results can be translated for the Canadian population (given for instance the different laws and practice around prostitution and health care in the two countries). But those caveats notwithstandings, the study does seem to confirm trends that I have seen around me.

On another but related note: rather than thinking in terms of "what are the risks" to make your decision regarding your sexual activities, it is usually recommended that you think in terms of "which consequences I am ready to deal with"?

In other words, rather than making your decisions of what do to and with whom based on a theoretical risk factor and magical thinking (we tend to assume that the bad stuff won't happen to us), assume that your partner IS infected, and adjust your practices accordingly.

Not all STIs carry the same consequences and health risks. Some, like Chlamydia and gonorrhea are easily treatable, assuming of course that you get tested regularly and get treated early on should you get infected. Others, like herpes, can only be treated but can never be cured, but is more of a social nuisance than a health risk. And then you have some like HIV/Aids which while not necessarily a death sentence anymore in Canada, has considerable and damaging effects on your health and other aspects of your life. Not all those STIs are transfered in the same ways, and therefore some practices are more or less risky for different STIs. So, the questions is which STIs you are ready to take the risk of being infected with or not? Based on your answer to this question, adjust your sexual practices accordingly.

You are not ready to deal with being infected with herpes (assuming you aren't already)? Then don't have casual sex with strangers (whether SPs or civilians), inform yourself about what herpes outbreaks look like and avoid any contact with someone who shows those symptoms, and use barriers when having sex (dental dams, gloves, condoms), and talk to any new partner about their health history and sexual practices. But even all those precautions can only reduce the risk, not make it nul. Herpes can only be diagnosed through a swab if they are sores present. Blood tests currently available are not useful because they cannot tell you where on your body you have HSV. And as mentioned earlier, while barriers provide some protection, they don't provide full protection. And while in most cases, infections occur when a partner has an outbreak, sometimes people can be infected even when there are no soresโ€”this is called asymptomatic shedding.
 
Thank you very GenevieveLajoie for your post. It was very helpful and answered many of my questions. Finally I just want to know if anyone knows about the scenario I posted about in my OP: Say if client A has gonorrhea and infects the SP during their session and then 15 minutes later the SP is with client B. Will client B catch something guaranteed?
 
You are still looking for absolutes, and I'm afraid that nobody can give you those.

There's a very easy way for you to protect yourself from being infected: cover your dick before putting it in someone's mouth, pussy, or asshole. That should reduce the risks considerably.
 
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    SATUR๐——๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—ง ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Jenny and best massage Rachel. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ JENNY is a sexy Asian honey, about 165 Cms., slim to medium build, beautiful natural 36Cโ€™s, long sexy legs & big hips, good massage & excellent services. Jenny has sexy smooth skin and a very good personality.
  28. Moneylee:
    Full season Wellness center: New Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Lucky, Student big boobs buttocks Vicky ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Anjoo , young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Linda ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. ๐Ÿ  2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ 4379857899 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  29. HolidaySpa:
    Saturday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธMAGGIE &* TARA. Maggie is a slim and very sexy Korean lady, very pretty and accommodating. Come and try, you will like. New Girl Tara is a young & pretty Asian girl with big melons and fun services.
  30. ForeverWarden:
    Saturday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Misaki & Tracy, Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Misaki is a young and beautiful real Japanese girl with natural 34DD Cups and a great body. She is open to bbbj, dfk and cfs
  31. Dreaminn:
    SATURDAY[ at ๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: AMY & MIMI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ AMY is a sweet and friendly Chinese vixen, 158Cms, 115Lbs, with C Cups and very willing to please. MIMI is a cute young Asian lady with a medium build,167Cms, 110Lbs, D Cups & very open minded services.
  32. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young girls are working today, young new sweet Yoyo 36 DD with curve body and young cute student Sophia, pretty fun Lina and cute GFE Ella are providing deep tissue and sensual massage. Pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available. 350 Wilson Ave North York
  33. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Apple๐Ÿ˜˜ - Brand new girl from Taiwan just a
  34. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 818-8896โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Ivy โค๏ธ is new girl in our branch, shy and sweet but also very vocal and needy, she demands your happiness and satisfaction. Slim body, supple soft breasts with long nipples and a toned bum bum will have you intoxicated by Ivyโ€™s good looks
  35. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix blossom Spa โ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธtable shower body scrub ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅAngela and Tiffany sexy body ๐Ÿคช๐Ÿคชbig boobs Round and plump buttocks Round and plump buttocks๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ตhot body slide for you ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366
  36. bumika.vashi:
    (((เค†เคชเค•เฅ‹ เคฌเคฟเคจเคพ เคจเคพเคŸเค• เคฏเคพ เคจเค–เคฐเฅ‡ เค•เคฐเคจเฅ‡ เคตเคพเคฒเคพ เคธเคฐเฅเคตเคฟเคธ เคšเคพเคนเฅ‡ เคคเฅ‹เคน เคฏเคพเคฆ เค•เคฐเคจเคพ. ))) If you want Service without Drama or Tantrums, Remember it. Will Try To Give You The Best Possible Sweating Experience With Full Company. TAKE MY WORD.?? Don't Waste Your Time And Money In Some Other Place Where You are Really Upset Loosing Out Both Money And Fun. Ok Try With Our Girls Once Then Your Visit Will Be Regular To Me.... _________________N O T E_________________ If u like my services Please Please Do not forget to
  37. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ CHASIDY, LUCY, PAOLA, AMANDA, MAY, KIRAN, NISHA, ANGEL ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  38. Turnernator1:
    blair
  39. SpringGreen.:
    Spring Green Spa - 72 Gerrard St W. 2/Fl - 647-891-0699Today we have 5 girls on Friday๏ผšNew jap tina ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ :heart4 Diana - Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too Wendy- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility CiCi- Exotic beauty with great service and...
  40. Sparkling Spa:
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ๐Ÿ“ฃ50 LOCKRIDGE AVE UNIT 8!! INTERNATIONAL GIRLS FOR A VARIETY OF APPETITES!!!๐Ÿ“ฃ๐Ÿ“ฃ END YOUR WEEK ๐Ÿ†๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ’ง๐Ÿ’งWITH A WILD TIME WITH๐ŸŽŒ๐ŸŽŒ JAPANESE CHANEL๐ŸŽŒ๐ŸŽŒ & ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐTAIWANESE ZOE ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ905-604-8186!!!
  41. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am,New First Day Young Slim Sexy Thai Girl Janice, Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki,Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  42. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Anna๐Ÿ˜˜- A stunning sexy girl from Hong Kong
  43. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 818-8896โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Bella ๐Ÿ˜˜ is a beautiful Vietnamese busty girl, very sexy, with RMT style massage and very good playful service. So friendly, and nice. Summer โค๏ธ has nice sexy body, and nice breasts. She can give very good massage and fun service. Very s
  44. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Michelle,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Aad,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  45. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cici , Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Jessica , young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Linda,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary . ๐Ÿ  2560 Shepard Ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ 4379857899 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  46. SunriseRH:
    FRIDAY at SUNRISE SPA: MICHELLE, LULU & SUMMER. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ 647-325-8086 โ˜Ž๏ธ HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. LULU is a friendly and very sexy Vietnamese girl. She is a lot of fun, and can be wild at times. SUMMER is a sweet Asian babe, 5โ€™3โ€ with a captivating 36D-28-39 figure
  47. NewOriental:
    FRIDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’šNEW ORIENTAL SPA๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, HELEN & PHOENIX. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ 647-381-2688 โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. PHOENIX is a gentle sweet Filipina lady, 5โ€™4โ€ and 105Lbs, with 34C-24-34 assets
  48. aaro_991:
    Athens ga
  49. ASPA:
    ๐—™๐—ฅ๐—œ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—ฎ๐˜ ๐—” ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: ๐—”๐—บ๐˜† & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open minded. She is in demand for her good massage and...
  50. Dreaminn:
    FRIDAY at ๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: KELLY, LULU & VIVI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ KELLY is a young & pretty Asian girl, very slim model figure, 5โ€™3โ€ with unreal bbbj skills & very liberal services. LULU is a very popular & well known Chinese attendant from another spa, very slim and beautiful with 34C Cups and incredible services..
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