Discectomy - After the Operation

[sweetsinger]

Melza, I know what you mean. I have had so called friends telling me that a lot of my pain may be in my head, because pain is remembered. I wouldn't wish what I go through on anyone, but if they could live a day in my ife, I would like them to then say that it is in my head.

Sometimes their doubt leaves me doubting myself, and then I realise that I am the one experiencing it and I know full well none of this is imagined. I don't think they realise how hurtful it is.

Before I discovered this site, I too was alone and if it does nothing else it allows us to share the experiences and know that we are not alone.

 

[xOxSnowXAngelxOx]

I had this problem too, and still do with some 'friends'. Even my husband of 27 years thought I was putting it on a bit till I got a cd of my last mri and showed him first a normal spine then mine! The pinches, compressions, bulges, spurs and shape suddenly there were tears in HIS eyes and he hugged me hard, since then we have a deeper bond.

It is NOT all in the mind, of course pain is remembered and reactions learnt, but my current bug bear is when the consultant or whomever stumps up, "if you looked at the mri of 100 people not complaining with pain they would have just as bad an mri as you, we treat the person not the mri!"

What rot, look at the studies, I did and thats not true, what is true is that many people have disc bulges and thinning discs which is a normal part of aging and cause virtually no pain; nerve impingments, compressions, disc extrusions are NOT normal and DO cause extreme pain!

 

[That Guy!]

Very odd statement for a consultant to make. Just by looking at the MRI scan you can tell whether the left or right nerve root is being compressed by the prolapsed disc. Sometimes a large prolapse can be in the centre and cause sciatica in both legs.

I don't agree that disc bulges are a normal part of aging though because if anything the reverse is true. You will find disc prolapses are far more common between the ages of 20-40 than 50-60. This is because the discs shrink and dry up as we age.

Now whether a prolapsed disc causes actual pain depends on many factors. One of the reasons why I discourage people from having multiple operations is because even a relatively small disc prolapse will cause sciatica. This is because of the formation of scar tissue restricts the space in the spinal canal. Anyone who has had multiple operations will know this because having an caudal epidural is sheer agony. You can actually feel the build up of pressure in your lower spine and this is due to the narrowing of your spinal canal because of the scar tissue.

I shall repeat again my advice for those suffering from a prolapsed disc. If you have already had one operation and suffer from another prolapse DO NOT have another operation to treat this. The long term results are far better if you wait long enough for the disc prolapse to dry up and reduce the compression on the nerve. Those who have only had 1 operation on their spine have an excellent chance of a normal life. Those who have had multiple operations aren't so lucky. The sheer amount of scar tissue can cause enough problems let alone make small disc prolapses agony. This is why "Failed back syndrome" has been accepted in the medical world and only really applies to those who have had more than 2 operations on the spine. The logic being is its virtually impossible to have a healthy, normal spine when you've been operated on numerous times.

 

[cutiepie =)]

So called FBSS do not "only really" occur in people with multiple surgeries. In most cases need for second surgery implies that you have FBSS or post-laminectomy syndrome.

Current status of FBSS is that its occurring less and less all over the world. Reason for this is because many surgeons switch to minimally-invasive methods. According to some studies, FBSS occurs in 30-40% of people after open back surgery and represents as continued low-back pain, immeasurable muscles damage, reherniation, instability. With minimally-invasive surgical techniques for herniated discs, FBSS is around 5%. Conclusion is simple.

Few more words about repeated surgery on same disc. I will just say an example with one of new techniques by one renowned surgeon. Dr. Yeung from USA adopted and then further developed percutaneous selective endoscopic discectomy. And now based on 15-20 years of his work conclusion is that he has better success with patient who had previous surgery on current level!

 

[Eleven Fingers Robert]

So which documented medical studies are you referring to that made you some to this assumption please? The research I did proved exactly the opposite!

Not really, only two that I can see are relevant? Size and position?

Temporary sciatica!

Operations are not that easy to get, I know several people that want one and cannot get one. An operation should be the last resort and to get one on the nhs (unless an emergency, cauda equina) six months of non-invasive treatment needs to be shown?

With all due respect and sorry to be quite blunt it is quite obvious why some need another operation.... it is the first that causes it. The trauma of cutting, stretching, then drilling, sawing and snapping the lamina bone off, then digging, and finally grapping and pulling the prolapsed disc out, its amazing anyone gets through it.

Now,compare that to and endoscopic minimally invasive, laser surgery, (MISS) under local anaesthetic with the patient sedated but awake and walking out the hospital pain free the SAME DAY! With MISS it is also obvious why if the problem is one side, one level, only ONE operation is needed to fix the problem, because with MISS the problem is solved.

 

[snuggameat]

I only based this on what I was told by my surgeon. I thought it was common knowledge that disc prolapses are far more frequent between the ages of 20-40. As we get older the discs shrink and begin to dry up. This is thought to be one of the reasons why we get shorter as we get older because the discs lose their mass. Also people are generally more active between the ages of 20-40 than 50-60 and of course one of the reasons why discs prolapse is because of the strain put on them. This is why you find disc prolapses occur to those who play vigorous sports.

I disagree that operations cause further disc prolapses. I believe once a disc prolapses your are prone to future disc prolapses at this level whether you have an operation or not. Their are a great deal of people who have one operation and then live a perfectly normal life.

All im trying to say is I would be wary having further operations to treat a prolapsed disc. The formation of scar tissue is a nightmare not just for the patient but the surgeon as it makes his/her job incredibly difficult. I will add im referring to open surgery rather than other techniques.

P.S You don't need to lecture me by saying operations are a last resort. Considering i've had these problems since 1996 and had 4 operations I think im experienced enough to know how it all works with regards to the NHS. One of the main reasons why your not referred for an MRI or to a Orthapaedic surgeon straight away is because in a majority of cases the disc prolapse will heal itself. Normally this takes between 3-6 months.

By the way they do not pull the disc straight out. When a discectomy is performed they normally only remove the part that is pressing on the nerves!


On a different note i've just noticed nobody replied to my thread. Surely there is someone out there in the same boat as me. All I want to know is has anyone suffered a disc prolapse in the same area that has been previously fused. I've typed this into google and cannot find one case. My surgeon is waiting for me to decide which type of operation I want to go for.

 

[Jpaul B.]

Hi ogothorpe, I haven't had a fused disc so can't really help you......but I know anything is possible with discs.

The recent threads have demonstrated how much conflicting information we are given about our conditions. Somebody mentioned that consultants make a diagnosis simply from looking at the scan results, the neurosurgeon told me the same thing. I was annoyed because I had waited months for him to 'receive' the scan results only to find that his information is based only on the image...which is instantly accessible.


ogothorpe, I had also read that disc prolapses are rare in later years, but I am one of the exceptions I suppose. All my disc problems began after my 50th birthday, and its been hell ever since. In my humble opinion there isn't anything clear cut about spinal problems and so we should just 'go with the flow'. Sometimes we help each other and sometimes we can't.

ogothorpe, I appreciate what you say about long term surgical intervention but I have met people who suffered multiple problems after surgery and then had their spine 'plated up'. The only reason I mention it again is because I know those people are now living pain free acitve lives. If I went through surgery again I would consider it my final gamble, which is what it is really, 'THE FINAL SOLUTION!'

Sorry I can't help with the fusion query, but I hope your dillema with soon be solved.

 

[local_gurl_808]

Hello ogothorpe, yes, I have suffered the same pains, numbness and weaknesses in the L4/5 and L5/S1 levels as you are describing.

The numbness, the loss of motive power and related pains and tingling
in the areas that you describe are exactly what one would expect from
an L4/5 level nerve strand 'or' nerve root impingement.

L4/5 impingements affect the front and outside of the leg.

L5/S1 impingements affect the back and inside of the leg.

I know this for sure, because from 2004 to 2008, I had suffered with all of 'your' leg problems, in both sides of my right leg. In October 2008 I underwent a Endoscopic Laser Foraminoplasty & Decompression (ELFD) (key hole surgery) at the Spinal Foundation in Cheshire.
This procedure completely cured my L4/5 sciatic pains, weakness, numbness, pins & needles and aches from the front and outside of my right leg.
Unfortunately, I had not realised at that time that I also had a significant L5/S1 impingement, this was masked by the 'stronger' L4/5 pains and
problems, and only revealed themselves after the sciatica problem was resolved.

The remaining problems are now stiffness, numbness, aching, leg weakness, spasms and sharp pain in the back of, and in the inside of my right leg. I also suffer with sharp tearing pains, spasms, inflamation and soreness in the L5/S1 lumber spine level, and around the right sided sacoilliac (SI) joint.

I hope this helps ogothorpe.

Best wishes


SPINELF

 

[Los Angeles]

Hi again everyone, it hadn't occurred to me to ask this question before, but its something thats puzzling me and I'd like to know if anyone else experiences it. I have what I can only describe as 'contractions' around my pelvic area, having given birth the sensation is very similar to the first contractions, except its lower down around my hips, the tops of my legs also feel as though they're being squeezed. When I get one I am pretty sure the nerve irritation will either ease or get worse afterwards. I'm going to the back clinic on the 15th and haven't a clue how to describe this, especially as they are quick to dismiss any symptom I have anyway.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[nfezduiqigkikxeem]

Hi cascara i havent read that book but will look out for it now,im still doing the exercises that physio gave me as i want to be able to tell my consultant what im doing and what the feelings im still getting in my leg and back are like. Im hoping the mri will shed some light but i have a feeling that now ive had the op,nothing will show up even though im in more pain now.Do you get pain in your lower back as well as your leg when you exercise?

 

[princessbubbbles]

Are they like fizzy, tingles? Tightening that spreads? The very early stages of labour? If so I get those too and it is because I have an impinged nerve where it transits, ie still in the cauda equina, which messes with the bowel sensations. Make sure that your bowels and waterworks are all normal and if anything changes tell the doc quick. I would never want to scare anyone but when it comes to disc and nerve problems, well hey! its all scary so better safe and informed, knowing what to watch for, look out for, than not. xxx

 

[ava]

I do BEFORE I exercise, but after it is much better. The book also explains the stages of disc problems from the very beginning of a stiff disc to loss of disc height etc.

 

[amtserg]

Hello everyone...

I am sat here at 2 am... in 5 hrs i go in to hospital for my operation... micro on l4/l5

glad i found this place... will come back and post again (with gods speed)
The operation doesnt bother me, the pain in my legs is unbearable... a familiar story...

I am freaking over the GA though !! last time i had one I went bonkers just as they tried to administer... and was ready to floor the anesthetist :0( pre armed fore warned have let em know :0)

see you on the other side... Laurence

 

[Q.B]

Good luck Laurence, I go for mine in the morning. After the pre assessment teaching session I had last Thursday I'm suprised that anybody goes for the op :0)

I'm the same with the GA and as you say, you just reach the stage where the pain gets unbearable......

 

[Steve Bee]

Good luck to you both xxxxxxx

 

[MassEauTerra]

Thanks Cascara, this is it! the day my life gets better :0) I'll post later on today when I get home. I still can't believe I'm in and out the same day......

kip

 

[iuefpuxbihjimueoh]

Best of luck Laurence and kipper Banjo. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Haidy Neitherland]

Hi all first i would like to say good luck to laurence and kipper banjo i am thinking of you both. I was wondering if anybody has experienced a back problem im having, either before or after their discectomy. The only way i can explain it is to say its like my spine at the bottom of my back snaps in twoAn example is on monday i was stood talking to a friend,then when i went to walk away i turned round and my back "just went". It feels like it breaks apart and the pain up my spine and headache it gives is awful,it makes me feel sick and it takes me awhile before i can move off and walk properly again.This used to happen before my discectomy but now its happening more,so what with the lower back pain and leg and foot pain,pins and needles etc i feel like an old lady shuffeling around.I am waiting for an mri to see whats happening since ive still got pain after the op but i cant get to see my gp till next thurs, so i was wondering if anyone else has this problem

 

[The answer Grape]

Sounds like the facet joints to me.

 

[R...]

Hi all, I went into theatre at 09.45 and woke up at 10.40, the proceedure only took 25 minutes, apparently my pilates/exercise regeme has paid off. I had some intial pain & discomfort in my lowerback (the operation area and I was also very cold) and dispite the pain relief given whilst under anesthetic, I was given a couple of shots of morphine which did the trick. It turns out I am part of an ongoing experiment to fast track patients through surgery hence the in/out day job. I felt quite punch drunk for a hour or two untill I got home and now, after an hours snooze I feel really tired but I am realitively pain free. The sciatica has gone compleatly, I may feel further discomfort later when all the various drugs have wore off, although for now I am keeping up with my paracetemol/codine/ ibuprufen cocktail for a couple of days. The staff at James Cook Unversity Hospital, Middlebrough, from the receptionists to the porters have been absolutely brilliant and I cannot praise them enough, I think a tin of Roses is in order for them when I go to get my clips out. I'll post a bit more on my progress tomorrow,
thanks for your support
Kip