Introducing Massageindustry.com

[InSHANity <3]

GONE!

 

[Heather H]

Welcome to our board!
I visited your site and am curious as to why you chose to include links to erotic massage. Those of us in the professional therapeutic side of massage and bodywork want nothing to do with that type of work and generally find it offensive to have that "profession" associated with what we do.
Look forward to a reply, boofdorf

 

[Brad]

That is a good question

GONE!

 

[Pompal 09.]

GONE!

 

[kimpossible]

That is a good question

The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.

It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is not legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.

 

[K K]

That is a good question

The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.

It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is not legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.

We're not saying it's legal in every country. But it's legal however. It is legal in the Netherlands, UK, Russia. We could go on and on about this and debate the topic all day. You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right. This is the year 2005. We think "adults" should have the right to choose any services they see fit that make them feel better. By having a link such as this we are NOT discrediting those in the "professional" massage fields. This is just something people seek out. Information and otherwise. Just look at it this way if you would for a second.

An opera singer for example trains their whole life to perfect their craft. They know what they do is an art form and that their voice is impeccable. They know what they do truly uplifts people and enhances their lives. Then comes along an 18 year bleach blond who's voice is completely computerized, can't sing for anything, shakes around a bit, and becomes the biggest popstar in the world making 100 million dollars. Then people go around calling her an "artist". Is she? Probably not! But for some reason people still want it, and in some way she must be enhancing THEIR lives or else they wouldn't be spending money on cds, concert tickets etc.

The people however who appreciate operatic music will pay her no nevermind and seek out what they consider the true art. Do you really think for one second the opera singer sits there and says, uhhh, I can't believe people are paying this person for this crap. No, because the opera singer is too busy singing doing what he or she loves. So just consider yourself an opera singer in the field of Bodywork and Massage Therapy. You know you are trained, professional, ethical and have something positive and uplifting to offer. Do you understand what we're saying here? It shouldn't matter what other people are doing. Because the people who are going to utilize your services have no interest in the other.

What you do is for one kind of clientele and what they do is for another. Just like each of those different types of "artists" has a different audience. Yet they are both still in the Music Biz. All we are trying to do is provide people with options and info on both ends. For the practitioners looking for opportunities, and for the clients looking for services. YOU know that part of massage is very fringey. So don't let it it upset you. I guarantee they're not taking away any potential clients from you. It's a whole other ball game. Hey, and you never know some of those providing those kind of services could probably be quite good. We know two women that used to do that and were very good. They had natural ability. Then one day they decided to get training and go "legit" now they have their own massage clinic.

So perhaps someone who does this type will visit the site to list their services and look around. They'll see different types of opportunities, training and decide to go the other way.
We can not exclude people however. Because that is wrong and not fair. Be Thankful in knowing what you do enhances people's lives and helps them.

Thank You, Massageindustry.com

 

[Pompal 09.]

That is a good question

You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right.

Gee, all I said was it is illegal for massage therapists to do erotic massage in Australia. A statement of fact, got absolutely nothing to do with any belief systems. I made no comment on whether I agreed with the legalities, just clarified that it is not legal for massage therapists to perform erotic massage in Australia. That is a fact, not an opinion. Where is the belief system in that?

I will also add it is illegal for dentists, bakers, and any number of other professions, to perform erotic massage in Australia.

 

[The Chika Rita]

Thanks MI for the information and the link to your new site. I don't think I've seen a massage site that gathers massage information from an international perspective.

JMO but... I don't think the site is meant to be just to find massage therapists, but anything for massage.

At least they have given it its own section. And if you really don't agree with what they are doing, you don't have to have your information listed with them.

 

[Country Girl]

Massageindustry said:

"How sad that you would focus upon something so trivial. Why is it you would look down upon what someone else does? Is this hurting you in anyway? Is this discrediting your practice or business? No it is not."

Um, sorry to wake you up regarding this, but the prostitution industry does tend to have a negative affect on our profession. What my personal views are on prostitution has nothing to do with the matter. For many years in the US prostitutes have used the misleading name "Massage Parlors" and advertised in newspapers and phone books under the listing massage. This has made it very difficult for many legitimate massage therapists to open up shop in many towns and cities. Attitudes are slowly changing, but many communities (and individuals) think massage equals sexual solicitation. The sex industry pretending to be massage therapists has affected the way people view "our" profession. It has affected our ability to get licences to practice. It has affected our ability to have insurance companies take us seriously. Etc.

So, yes, in answer to your statement- Its not trivial; It does hurt our profession; It definitely discredits our practice. I understand you have an international audience and laws are different, but prostitution is mostly illegal in the US and because of the way it negatively affects our profession it does raise our hackles.
Good luck in your endeavor

 

[Chesna Rudra]

GONE!

 

[toon]

Good post Boofdorf! I agree, it does effect us as professionals!

Prostitution? Who said we allow prostitution? Do you even know what the definition of prostitution is?

Here is Webster's

prostitution

n : offering sexual INTERCOURSE for pay. INTERCOURSE!

We review EVERY link on the site and do not allow straight up sexwork sites. If we did we would have called it sexindustry.com.

So you are saying that these (erotic) therapists aren't having "intercourse" with their clients?!

The Webster's definition of intercourse is this:
Main Entry: inآ·terآ·course
Pronunciation: 'in-t&r-"kOrs, -"kors
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English intercurse, probably from Middle French entrecours, from Medieval Latin intercursus, from Latin, act of running between, from intercurrere to run between, from inter- + currere to run -- more at CAR
1 : connection or dealings between persons or groups
2 : exchange especially of thoughts or feelings : COMMUNION
3 : physical sexual contact between individuals that involves the genitalia of at least one person ; especially : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE 1

I doubt those types (erotic) of therapists don't fall under the #3 definition. If you don't think so then you are fooling yourself.

A person who is seeking your kind of services is not going to go to someone else on the other end of the spectrum, and vice versa.

Oh but they do! Many people seeking the "erotic" services will try to get what they are looking for from a legitimate therapist.
It is stressful and potentially dangerous for any therapist.

A person who is truly competent in their profession is not going to be concerned with what others are doing. They focus upon the task at hand.

Anyone who knows anything about business will keep up and be concerned with what is going on around them.

I completly understand that there is a market for "erotic" services and that people out there seek them.
But as professional therapists we most of us are trying to keep out "non-erotic" reputations and when we are placed along side the "others" it just keeps the struggle going.[/quote]



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Topic review - Introducing Massageindustry.com






Author
Message





Talenyn






 
Post subject: 

 













While normally I don't advocate editing individual posts, there are times when it becomes necessary. Content in a particular post became totally unnecessary and out of line.

Due to the language use I decided to edit the content of the threads. It served no purpose to the topic of the thread.

Furthermore, I am locking this topic, especially since the original poster has deleted all of their messages except this last one. I ask that this topic not be addressed in a new thread.

Thank you,

Jennifer
Section Moderator

While normally I don't advocate editing individual posts, there are times when it becomes necessary. Content in a particular post became totally unnecessary and out of line.

Due to the language use I decided to edit the content of the threads. It served no purpose to the topic of the thread.

Furthermore, I am locking this topic, especially since the original poster has deleted all of their messages except this last one. I ask that this topic not be addressed in a new thread.

Thank you,

Jennifer
Section Moderator











Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:25 am














mush






 
Post subject: 

 













Massageindustry wrote:edited for content by Talenyn



very professional response.

i give you no credibility.

[quote="Massageindustry"][color=darkred]edited for content by Talenyn[/color][/quote]



very professional response.

i give you no credibility.











Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:07 am














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













terab wrote:hey massageindustry,was your grandfather's pain alleviated by receiving a hand job or real massage therapy? if by real massage therapy and that's the real reason that you started this site, why would you add erotic massage?

I can not believe someone would ask if an 80 year old man dying from leukemia was receiving hand jobs by his private duty nurse. You are a sick, disgusting person. That is why I have requested that our profile be removed from this site. If this is the caliber of person who uses this site. Then we want absolutely no part of it. Linking or otherwise.

The sensual massage category if you must know was primarily for couples or individuals looking to enhance their relationships.

Now let me leave you with this since we will no longer have anything to do with this site whatsoever. And I mean ANYTHING.

In answer to your question. Was my grandfather receiving hand jobs as he laid there practically paralyzed and dying?

**** (edited for content by Talenyn)

There's your answer.

We better never catch you trying to post your puremassage.biz site

You have been blackballed.

[quote="terab"]hey massageindustry,was your grandfather's pain alleviated by receiving a hand job or real massage therapy? if by real massage therapy and that's the real reason that you started this site, why would you add erotic massage? [/quote]

I can not believe someone would ask if an 80 year old man dying from leukemia was receiving hand jobs by his private duty nurse. You are a sick, disgusting person. That is why I have requested that our profile be removed from this site. If this is the caliber of person who uses this site. Then we want absolutely no part of it. Linking or otherwise.

The sensual massage category if you must know was primarily for couples or individuals looking to enhance their relationships.

Now let me leave you with this since we will no longer have anything to do with this site whatsoever. And I mean ANYTHING.

In answer to your question. Was my grandfather receiving hand jobs as he laid there practically paralyzed and dying?

[color=darkred]**** (edited for content by Talenyn)[/color]

There's your answer.

We better never catch you trying to post your puremassage.biz site

You have been blackballed.











Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:06 am














boofdorf






 
Post subject: 

 













Dear MI,
(Not sure if this has always been Marcus, or other folks.) This situation has happened a number of times before. A new company with a product or idea has come on to this board to announce themselves. This board is comprised mostly of professionals that work in the field. We as a group tend to tell it like it is concerning our field. Some companies take what we have to say and use this information to their advaneforum.xxxe. Others tend to get defensive and lose sight of the valuable, if critical, feedback we offer. Responding in a more defensive fashion tends to elicit more criticism.

Believe me, over the years we've seen some real doozy ideas and had business heads screaming at us because we don't seem to see things from their point of view. (So far, in your or your associates replies above, you have questioned my mental state and my competency) But we love our profession and what we do and want to protect it, and tend to know things through training and experience that many business-minded folks may not have grasped.

It is a beautiful story you have shared regarding your grandfather and your desire to spread massage to the masses. I wish you the best. I also hope you will choose to see the responses you get here as constructive criticism, or at least appreciate the inside view you are getting of what U.S. professional massage therapists think about what you are offering. What you do with this information is up to you.
Cheers, boofdorf

Dear MI,
(Not sure if this has always been Marcus, or other folks.) This situation has happened a number of times before. A new company with a product or idea has come on to this board to announce themselves. This board is comprised mostly of professionals that work in the field. We as a group tend to tell it like it is concerning our field. Some companies take what we have to say and use this information to their advaneforum.xxxe. Others tend to get defensive and lose sight of the valuable, if critical, feedback we offer. Responding in a more defensive fashion tends to elicit more criticism.

Believe me, over the years we've seen some real doozy ideas and had business heads screaming at us because we don't seem to see things from their point of view. (So far, in your or your associates replies above, you have questioned my mental state and my competency) But we love our profession and what we do and want to protect it, and tend to know things through training and experience that many business-minded folks may not have grasped.

It is a beautiful story you have shared regarding your grandfather and your desire to spread massage to the masses. I wish you the best. I also hope you will choose to see the responses you get here as constructive criticism, or at least appreciate the inside view you are getting of what U.S. professional massage therapists think about what you are offering. What you do with this information is up to you.
Cheers, boofdorf











Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:19 pm














terab






 
Post subject: 

 













hey massageindustry,

was your grandfather's pain alleviated by receiving a hand job or real massage therapy? if by real massage therapy and that's the real reason that you started this site, why would you add erotic massage?

and yes, people are that stupid. (in your earlier post) i get phone calls every week asking if i offer more than massage. if you read my website or anywhere else i'm listed, it should be clear to people that i do not offer "erotic massage" or "a full release". so yes, people really are stupid. you can't underestimate someone who think with what's in their pants.

hey massageindustry,

was your grandfather's pain alleviated by receiving a hand job or real massage therapy? if by real massage therapy and that's the real reason that you started this site, why would you add erotic massage?

and yes, people are that stupid. (in your earlier post) i get phone calls every week asking if i offer more than massage. if you read my website or anywhere else i'm listed, it should be clear to people that i do not offer "erotic massage" or "a full release". so yes, people really are stupid. you can't underestimate someone who think with what's in their pants.











Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:03 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:36 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:21 pm














palpable






 
Post subject: 

 













I am curious to know if the links on your site are supplied by the linkee, or have they been accumulated and added by massageindustry?

Thanks for your reply.

I am curious to know if the links on your site are supplied by the linkee, or have they been accumulated and added by massageindustry?

Thanks for your reply.











Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:11 am














melb






 
Post subject: 

 













on a search engine aspect - you can't get child freindly web site recognition due to your erotic massage content. This will limit a lot of legit people that have high filtering on their computer.

You will have to spend a lot of money to get listed in Google results due to their current sandbox effect, but you showing google ads - no wonder you've managed to obtain so many hits, yet you say you haven't done any promotion yet?

Your web site description "Find massage therapy Masseurs masseuses bodywork massage services links by region. Get listed on the largest massage directory. All massage sites listed" is too long for the search engines.

Your keywords "Massage services ads links directories products sites gay erotic sensual bodywork appointments locally globally get clients finder oils all types massafe massahe worldwide list services massage wanted i want a massage all massage sites spas health modali" Why the emphasis on sexuality? There is no mention of any of the other categories you say you want to promote such as animals, senior, infant, etc?

I'm almost tempted to think this site is just a test for the google sandbox effect.

on a search engine aspect - you can't get child freindly web site recognition due to your erotic massage content. This will limit a lot of legit people that have high filtering on their computer.

You will have to spend a lot of money to get listed in Google results due to their current sandbox effect, but you showing google ads - no wonder you've managed to obtain so many hits, yet you say you haven't done any promotion yet?

Your web site description "Find massage therapy Masseurs masseuses bodywork massage services links by region. Get listed on the largest massage directory. All massage sites listed" is too long for the search engines.

Your keywords "Massage services ads links directories products sites gay erotic sensual bodywork appointments locally globally get clients finder oils all types massafe massahe worldwide list services massage wanted i want a massage all massage sites spas health modali" Why the emphasis on sexuality? There is no mention of any of the other categories you say you want to promote such as animals, senior, infant, etc?

I'm almost tempted to think this site is just a test for the google sandbox effect.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:02 pm














melb






 
Post subject: 

 













As far as I am concerned it is like someone ringing up and asking me how much extra to tile their bathroom - it's a service I don't provide. If I was getting a lot of phone calls about tiling I would be concerned about the volume of people that confused tiling with massage therapy, but I wouldn't look down on people that did provide tiling - they are providing a service, there is a demand for that service and they satisfy that demand. (and I hope "bathroom tiling" is not some code word for some strange fetish) I would be careful about where I placed my information so it was clear I had nothing to do with tiling. The continued phone calls about tiling would be boring, repetitive, eye rolling "errgh, it's another one".

People don't ring up a dentist looking for "extras", they don't ring up a bank looking for extras, they don't ring up physiotherapists looking for extras. They do ring up massage therapists. My website focuses on pregnancy and hot stone massage, I wish I had a dollar for every man that rang up to find out what exactly was massaged. I don't make any reference on the site to "full body massage". A large portion of those phone calls either just hang up once I make it clear what it is not, or continue with "how much extra?". Please let me know one other profession that gets that type of phone call on a regular basis. I AM located in AUSTRALIA where erotic massage is legal, and I can asure you a LOT of people a still confused.

As I mentioned earlier, erotic massage is legal in Australia in registered brothels. Any release of bodily fluids puts the premises under a much closer health and safety code. That’s not a judgement that what it is is wrong, it’s a health and safety issue. What does annoy me is that a lot men do not want to go to brothels for such services, for a variety of reasons, they don't want to be seen walking into one, they think it's cheating, they don't want to associate with sex workers, they think they can get it cheaper from an unregulated illegal place, they just don't realise erotic massage must be performed in a registered brothel. (note: this means any form of outcall erotic massage is illegal in most states in Australia). Whatever their reason for not wanting to go to a brothel, they don't ring up the dentist looking for it, they ring up someone that specialises in pregnancy massage and ask "how much extra?" BORING!!!!

A lot of the erotic massage places in Australia do not provide full service, hands are all that are used, but they are still licensed brothels. I'm pretty sure a lot of Canada and England work under similar legal requirements.

As far as I am concerned it is like someone ringing up and asking me how much extra to tile their bathroom - it's a service I don't provide. If I was getting a lot of phone calls about tiling I would be concerned about the volume of people that confused tiling with massage therapy, but I wouldn't look down on people that did provide tiling - they are providing a service, there is a demand for that service and they satisfy that demand. (and I hope "bathroom tiling" is not some code word for some strange fetish) I would be careful about where I placed my information so it was clear I had nothing to do with tiling. The continued phone calls about tiling would be boring, repetitive, eye rolling "errgh, it's another one".

People don't ring up a dentist looking for "extras", they don't ring up a bank looking for extras, they don't ring up physiotherapists looking for extras. They do ring up massage therapists. My website focuses on pregnancy and hot stone massage, I wish I had a dollar for every man that rang up to find out what exactly was massaged. I don't make any reference on the site to "full body massage". A large portion of those phone calls either just hang up once I make it clear what it is not, or continue with "how much extra?". Please let me know one other profession that gets that type of phone call on a regular basis. I AM located in AUSTRALIA where erotic massage is legal, and I can asure you a LOT of people a still confused.

As I mentioned earlier, erotic massage is legal in Australia in registered brothels. Any release of bodily fluids puts the premises under a much closer health and safety code. That’s not a judgement that what it is is wrong, it’s a health and safety issue. What does annoy me is that a lot men do not want to go to brothels for such services, for a variety of reasons, they don't want to be seen walking into one, they think it's cheating, they don't want to associate with sex workers, they think they can get it cheaper from an unregulated illegal place, they just don't realise erotic massage must be performed in a registered brothel. (note: this means any form of outcall erotic massage is illegal in most states in Australia). Whatever their reason for not wanting to go to a brothel, they don't ring up the dentist looking for it, they ring up someone that specialises in pregnancy massage and ask "how much extra?" BORING!!!!

A lot of the erotic massage places in Australia do not provide full service, hands are all that are used, but they are still licensed brothels. I'm pretty sure a lot of Canada and England work under similar legal requirements.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:45 pm














EgoMagickian






 
Post subject: 

 













How funny... I just finished writing a scathing, cogent post against the inclusion of erotic massage for US users... and now I'm about to write a post for the other side.

I think seeing all those may categories PLUS erotic massage makes it abundantly clear to people that erotic massage is only one type of massage. I'm sure no one things the headings for "Infant massage" or "Animal and pet massage" involve anything erotic. Uhh, hopefully.

Anyway, isn't that really our problem? Folks not understanding that there are different kinds of massage?

I'm sorry, the existence/prevalence/whatever of sex workers is not the problem. The guy who wants a happy ending is never going to want to be my client, whether erotic massage is 100% legal and open, or completely eradicated. He's never going to say "Welp, can't get my extra, guess I'll settle for an elbow in my piriformis."

The misunderstanding that we do something different than what they do... now there's the problem.

Am I wrong?

Sidebar: the laws against sex work are exactly what keep that misunderstanding alive, because sex workers are not allowed to be open and honest about what it is that they do.

Now, my two issues are:

- the site has categories for gender-based (and gender-dichotomous at that) massage. I will not list on sites that do this.
- the site links to other sites that do NOT make the aforementioned Real Problem clearer... quite the opposite. Undoing all the potential clearing up!

How funny... I just finished writing a scathing, cogent post against the inclusion of erotic massage for US users... and now I'm about to write a post for the other side.

I think seeing all those may categories PLUS erotic massage makes it abundantly clear to people that erotic massage is only one type of massage. I'm sure no one things the headings for "Infant massage" or "Animal and pet massage" involve anything erotic. Uhh, hopefully.

Anyway, isn't that really our problem? Folks not understanding that there are different kinds of massage?

I'm sorry, the existence/prevalence/whatever of sex workers is not the problem. The guy who wants a happy ending is never going to want to be my client, whether erotic massage is 100% legal and open, or completely eradicated. He's never going to say "Welp, can't get my extra, guess I'll settle for an elbow in my piriformis."

The misunderstanding that we do something different than what they do... now there's the problem.

Am I wrong?

Sidebar: the laws against sex work are exactly what keep that misunderstanding alive, because sex workers are not allowed to be open and honest about what it is that they do.

Now, my two issues are:

- the site has categories for gender-based (and gender-dichotomous at that) massage. I will not list on sites that do this.
- the site links to other sites that do NOT make the aforementioned Real Problem clearer... quite the opposite. Undoing all the potential clearing up!











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:35 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:34 pm














boofdorf






 
Post subject: 

 













Hello MI,
My questions and responses were not posted as an intent to engage in a discussion of the moral, ethical, or legal aspects of sexworkers. I merely wanted to give you a heads up on how Massage Therapists and Bodyworkers generally feel about the Sex Industry and how it negatively affects our profession. I admit I was very impressed with all the rest of your categories and how tastefully you have set up your web page. But too many of us are sick of having to deal with people that come to us seeking out sexually related work and having to pour energy into trying to convince the rest that we are not sex workers. Maybe Sexworkers are held in the highest esteem in other parts of the world, but here in the US they are not and here in the US is where we work.
Now, just for fun, not sure why you chose to be so particular with your definition of Prostitution, but here's what The American Herieforum.xxxeآ® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright آ© 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, Published by Houghton Mifflin Company has to say for a defintion:
The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
And here's Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, آ© 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.:
the act or practice of engaging in sexual activity indiscriminately esp. for money; also : the crime of engaging in such activity
I did just now go back and see that Sensual/Erotic Massage is at the bottom right (it was midway on the left when I first looked a day or so ago) so I appreciate your moving it to the end, at least. However, you also have a section called Male Massage and Bodywork. In here are listed a number of sites that use euphamisms for sexwork. Again, it is your company's choice to list what ever sites you wish, it is just unfortunate from the point of view of U.S. Professional Massage Therapists that you have chosen to include them in the same space. Otherwise it seems an incredible resource.

Hello MI,
My questions and responses were not posted as an intent to engage in a discussion of the moral, ethical, or legal aspects of sexworkers. I merely wanted to give you a heads up on how Massage Therapists and Bodyworkers generally feel about the Sex Industry and how it negatively affects our profession. I admit I was very impressed with all the rest of your categories and how tastefully you have set up your web page. But too many of us are sick of having to deal with people that come to us seeking out sexually related work and having to pour energy into trying to convince the rest that we are not sex workers. Maybe Sexworkers are held in the highest esteem in other parts of the world, but here in the US they are not and here in the US is where we work.
Now, just for fun, not sure why you chose to be so particular with your definition of Prostitution, but here's what The American Herieforum.xxxeآ® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright آ© 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, Published by Houghton Mifflin Company has to say for a defintion:
[b]The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.[/b]
And here's Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, آ© 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.:
[b]the act or practice of engaging in sexual activity indiscriminately esp. for money; also : the crime of engaging in such activity[/b]
I did just now go back and see that Sensual/Erotic Massage is at the bottom right (it was midway on the left when I first looked a day or so ago) so I appreciate your moving it to the end, at least. However, you also have a section called Male Massage and Bodywork. In here are listed a number of sites that use euphamisms for sexwork. Again, it is your company's choice to list what ever sites you wish, it is just unfortunate from the point of view of U.S. Professional Massage Therapists that you have chosen to include them in the same space. Otherwise it seems an incredible resource.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:30 pm














Masthera






 
Post subject: 

 













Good post Boofdorf! I agree, it does effect us as professionals!

Quote:Prostitution? Who said we allow prostitution? Do you even know what the definition of prostitution is? Here is Webster's prostitution n : offering sexual INTERCOURSE for pay. INTERCOURSE! We review EVERY link on the site and do not allow straight up sexwork sites. If we did we would have called it sexindustry.com. So you are saying that these (erotic) therapists aren't having "intercourse" with their clients?!The Webster's definition of intercourse is this:Main Entry: inآ·terآ·course Pronunciation: 'in-t&r-"kOrs, -"korsFunction: nounEtymology: Middle English intercurse, probably from Middle French entrecours, from Medieval Latin intercursus, from Latin, act of running between, from intercurrere to run between, from inter- + currere to run -- more at CAR1 : connection or dealings between persons or groups2 : exchange especially of thoughts or feelings : COMMUNION3 : physical sexual contact between individuals that involves the genitalia of at least one person ; especially : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE 1 I doubt those types (erotic) of therapists don't fall under the #3 definition. If you don't think so then you are fooling yourself.Quote:A person who is seeking your kind of services is not going to go to someone else on the other end of the spectrum, and vice versa. Oh but they do! Many people seeking the "erotic" services will try to get what they are looking for from a legitimate therapist. It is stressful and potentially dangerous for any therapist. Quote:A person who is truly competent in their profession is not going to be concerned with what others are doing. They focus upon the task at hand. Anyone who knows anything about business will keep up and be concerned with what is going on around them.

I completly understand that there is a market for "erotic" services and that people out there seek them.
But as professional therapists we most of us are trying to keep out "non-erotic" reputations and when we are placed along side the "others" it just keeps the struggle going.

Good post Boofdorf! I agree, it does effect us as professionals!

[quote]Prostitution? Who said we allow prostitution? Do you even know what the definition of prostitution is? Here is Webster's prostitution n : offering sexual INTERCOURSE for pay. INTERCOURSE! We review EVERY link on the site and do not allow straight up sexwork sites. If we did we would have called it sexindustry.com. [/quote]So you are saying that these (erotic) therapists aren't having "intercourse" with their clients?!The Webster's definition of intercourse is this:Main Entry: inآ·terآ·course Pronunciation: 'in-t&r-"kOrs, -"korsFunction: nounEtymology: Middle English intercurse, probably from Middle French entrecours, from Medieval Latin intercursus, from Latin, act of running between, from intercurrere to run between, from inter- + currere to run -- more at CAR1 : connection or dealings between persons or groups2 : exchange especially of thoughts or feelings : COMMUNION[b]3 : physical sexual contact between individuals that involves the genitalia of at least one person ; especially : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE 1 [/b] I doubt those types (erotic) of therapists[i] don't[/i] fall under the #3 definition. If you don't think so then you are fooling yourself.[quote]A person who is seeking your kind of services is not going to go to someone else on the other end of the spectrum, and vice versa.[/quote] Oh but they do! Many people seeking the "erotic" services will try to get what they are looking for from a legitimate therapist. It is stressful and potentially dangerous for any therapist. [quote]A person who is truly competent in their profession is not going to be concerned with what others are doing. They focus upon the task at hand. [/quote] Anyone who knows anything about business will keep up and be concerned with what is going on around them.

I completly understand that there is a market for "erotic" services and that people out there seek them.
But as professional therapists we most of us are trying to keep out "non-erotic" reputations and when we are placed along side the "others" it just keeps the struggle going.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:28 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 pm














boofdorf






 
Post subject: 

 













Massageindustry said:
Quote:"How sad that you would focus upon something so trivial. Why is it you would look down upon what someone else does? Is this hurting you in anyway? Is this discrediting your practice or business? No it is not."

Um, sorry to wake you up regarding this, but the prostitution industry does tend to have a negative affect on our profession. What my personal views are on prostitution has nothing to do with the matter. For many years in the US prostitutes have used the misleading name "Massage Parlors" and advertised in newspapers and phone books under the listing massage. This has made it very difficult for many legitimate massage therapists to open up shop in many towns and cities. Attitudes are slowly changing, but many communities (and individuals) think massage equals sexual solicitation. The sex industry pretending to be massage therapists has affected the way people view "our" profession. It has affected our ability to get licences to practice. It has affected our ability to have insurance companies take us seriously. Etc.

So, yes, in answer to your statement- Its not trivial; It does hurt our profession; It definitely discredits our practice. I understand you have an international audience and laws are different, but prostitution is mostly illegal in the US and because of the way it negatively affects our profession it does raise our hackles.
Good luck in your endeavor

Massageindustry said:
[quote]"How sad that you would focus upon something so trivial. Why is it you would look down upon what someone else does? Is this hurting you in anyway? Is this discrediting your practice or business? No it is not."[/quote]

Um, sorry to wake you up regarding this, but the prostitution industry does tend to have a negative affect on our profession. What my personal views are on prostitution has nothing to do with the matter. For many years in the US prostitutes have used the misleading name "Massage Parlors" and advertised in newspapers and phone books under the listing massage. This has made it very difficult for many legitimate massage therapists to open up shop in many towns and cities. Attitudes are slowly changing, but many communities (and individuals) think massage equals sexual solicitation. The sex industry pretending to be massage therapists has affected the way people view "our" profession. It has affected our ability to get licences to practice. It has affected our ability to have insurance companies take us seriously. Etc.

So, yes, in answer to your statement- Its not trivial; It does hurt our profession; It definitely discredits our practice. I understand you have an international audience and laws are different, but prostitution is mostly illegal in the US and because of the way it negatively affects our profession it does raise our hackles.
Good luck in your endeavor











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:04 pm














Talenyn






 
Post subject: 

 













Thanks MI for the information and the link to your new site. I don't think I've seen a massage site that gathers massage information from an international perspective.

JMO but... I don't think the site is meant to be just to find massage therapists, but anything for massage.

At least they have given it its own section. And if you really don't agree with what they are doing, you don't have to have your information listed with them.

Thanks MI for the information and the link to your new site. I don't think I've seen a massage site that gathers massage information from an international perspective.

JMO but... I don't think the site is meant to be just to find massage therapists, but anything for massage.

At least they have given it its own section. And if you really don't agree with what they are doing, you don't have to have your information listed with them.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:47 am














melb






 
Post subject: 
Re: That is a good question
 













Quote:You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right.
Gee, all I said was it is illegal for massage therapists to do erotic massage in Australia. A statement of fact, got absolutely nothing to do with any belief systems. I made no comment on whether I agreed with the legalities, just clarified that it is not legal for massage therapists to perform erotic massage in Australia. That is a fact, not an opinion. Where is the belief system in that?

I will also add it is illegal for dentists, bakers, and any number of other professions, to perform erotic massage in Australia.

[quote]You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right.[/quote]
Gee, all I said was it is illegal for massage therapists to do erotic massage in Australia. A statement of fact, got absolutely nothing to do with any belief systems. I made no comment on whether I agreed with the legalities, just clarified that it is [b]not[/b] legal for massage therapists to perform erotic massage in Australia. That is a fact, not an opinion. Where is the belief system in that?

I will also add it is illegal for dentists, bakers, and any number of other professions, to perform erotic massage in Australia.











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:33 am














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 
Re: That is a good question
 













melb wrote:Massageindustry wrote:The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is not legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.

We're not saying it's legal in every country. But it's legal however. It is legal in the Netherlands, UK, Russia. We could go on and on about this and debate the topic all day. You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right. This is the year 2005. We think "adults" should have the right to choose any services they see fit that make them feel better. By having a link such as this we are NOT discrediting those in the "professional" massage fields. This is just something people seek out. Information and otherwise. Just look at it this way if you would for a second.

An opera singer for example trains their whole life to perfect their craft. They know what they do is an art form and that their voice is impeccable. They know what they do truly uplifts people and enhances their lives. Then comes along an 18 year bleach blond who's voice is completely computerized, can't sing for anything, shakes around a bit, and becomes the biggest popstar in the world making 100 million dollars. Then people go around calling her an "artist". Is she? Probably not! But for some reason people still want it, and in some way she must be enhancing THEIR lives or else they wouldn't be spending money on cds, concert tickets etc.

The people however who appreciate operatic music will pay her no nevermind and seek out what they consider the true art. Do you really think for one second the opera singer sits there and says, uhhh, I can't believe people are paying this person for this crap. No, because the opera singer is too busy singing doing what he or she loves. So just consider yourself an opera singer in the field of Bodywork and Massage Therapy. You know you are trained, professional, ethical and have something positive and uplifting to offer. Do you understand what we're saying here? It shouldn't matter what other people are doing. Because the people who are going to utilize your services have no interest in the other.

What you do is for one kind of clientele and what they do is for another. Just like each of those different types of "artists" has a different audience. Yet they are both still in the Music Biz. All we are trying to do is provide people with options and info on both ends. For the practitioners looking for opportunities, and for the clients looking for services. YOU know that part of massage is very fringey. So don't let it it upset you. I guarantee they're not taking away any potential clients from you. It's a whole other ball game. Hey, and you never know some of those providing those kind of services could probably be quite good. We know two women that used to do that and were very good. They had natural ability. Then one day they decided to get training and go "legit" now they have their own massage clinic.

So perhaps someone who does this type will visit the site to list their services and look around. They'll see different types of opportunities, training and decide to go the other way.
We can not exclude people however. Because that is wrong and not fair. Be Thankful in knowing what you do enhances people's lives and helps them.

Thank You, Massageindustry.com

[quote="melb"][quote="Massageindustry"]The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.[/quote]It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is [b]not[/b] legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.[/quote]

We're not saying it's legal in every country. But it's legal however. It is legal in the Netherlands, UK, Russia. We could go on and on about this and debate the topic all day. You can not impose your belief systems on the world. If you do not approve of something that doesn't mean it's not right. This is the year 2005. We think "adults" should have the right to choose any services they see fit that make them feel better. By having a link such as this we are NOT discrediting those in the "professional" massage fields. This is just something people seek out. Information and otherwise. Just look at it this way if you would for a second.

An opera singer for example trains their whole life to perfect their craft. They know what they do is an art form and that their voice is impeccable. They know what they do truly uplifts people and enhances their lives. Then comes along an 18 year bleach blond who's voice is completely computerized, can't sing for anything, shakes around a bit, and becomes the biggest popstar in the world making 100 million dollars. Then people go around calling her an "artist". Is she? Probably not! But for some reason people still want it, and in some way she must be enhancing THEIR lives or else they wouldn't be spending money on cds, concert tickets etc.

The people however who appreciate operatic music will pay her no nevermind and seek out what they consider the true art. Do you really think for one second the opera singer sits there and says, uhhh, I can't believe people are paying this person for this crap. No, because the opera singer is too busy singing doing what he or she loves. So just consider yourself an opera singer in the field of Bodywork and Massage Therapy. You know you are trained, professional, ethical and have something positive and uplifting to offer. Do you understand what we're saying here? It shouldn't matter what other people are doing. Because the people who are going to utilize your services have no interest in the other.

What you do is for one kind of clientele and what they do is for another. Just like each of those different types of "artists" has a different audience. Yet they are both still in the Music Biz. All we are trying to do is provide people with options and info on both ends. For the practitioners looking for opportunities, and for the clients looking for services. YOU know that part of massage is very fringey. So don't let it it upset you. I guarantee they're not taking away any potential clients from you. It's a whole other ball game. Hey, and you never know some of those providing those kind of services could probably be quite good. We know two women that used to do that and were very good. They had natural ability. Then one day they decided to get training and go "legit" now they have their own massage clinic.

So perhaps someone who does this type will visit the site to list their services and look around. They'll see different types of opportunities, training and decide to go the other way.
We can not exclude people however. Because that is wrong and not fair. Be Thankful in knowing what you do enhances people's lives and helps them.

Thank You, Massageindustry.com











Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:02 am














melb






 
Post subject: 
Re: That is a good question
 













Massageindustry wrote:The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.
It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is not legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.

[quote="Massageindustry"]The reason we did is because in most countries of the world it is perfectly legal. Except for in some parts of the US. This is not a USA ONLY website. It is legal in Asia, Canada, Europe, Australia and so on.
It is legal in Australia for registered brothels to offer erotic massage. It is [b]not[/b] legal for massage therapists to offer erotic massage. I think you will find similar requirements in parts of Europe and Asia.











Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:34 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 

 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:26 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 
That is a good question
 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:51 pm














boofdorf






 
Post subject: 

 













Welcome to our board!
I visited your site and am curious as to why you chose to include links to erotic massage. Those of us in the professional therapeutic side of massage and bodywork want nothing to do with that type of work and generally find it offensive to have that "profession" associated with what we do.
Look forward to a reply, boofdorf

Welcome to our board!
I visited your site and am curious as to why you chose to include links to erotic massage. Those of us in the professional therapeutic side of massage and bodywork want nothing to do with that type of work and generally find it offensive to have that "profession" associated with what we do.
Look forward to a reply, boofdorf











Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:46 pm














Massageindustry






 
Post subject: 
Introducing Massageindustry.com
 













GONE!

GONE!











Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:12 am


















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[Clinton]

Hello MI,
My questions and responses were not posted as an intent to engage in a discussion of the moral, ethical, or legal aspects of sexworkers. I merely wanted to give you a heads up on how Massage Therapists and Bodyworkers generally feel about the Sex Industry and how it negatively affects our profession. I admit I was very impressed with all the rest of your categories and how tastefully you have set up your web page. But too many of us are sick of having to deal with people that come to us seeking out sexually related work and having to pour energy into trying to convince the rest that we are not sex workers. Maybe Sexworkers are held in the highest esteem in other parts of the world, but here in the US they are not and here in the US is where we work.
Now, just for fun, not sure why you chose to be so particular with your definition of Prostitution, but here's what The American Herieforum.xxxe® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, Published by Houghton Mifflin Company has to say for a defintion:
The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
And here's Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.:
the act or practice of engaging in sexual activity indiscriminately esp. for money; also : the crime of engaging in such activity
I did just now go back and see that Sensual/Erotic Massage is at the bottom right (it was midway on the left when I first looked a day or so ago) so I appreciate your moving it to the end, at least. However, you also have a section called Male Massage and Bodywork. In here are listed a number of sites that use euphamisms for sexwork. Again, it is your company's choice to list what ever sites you wish, it is just unfortunate from the point of view of U.S. Professional Massage Therapists that you have chosen to include them in the same space. Otherwise it seems an incredible resource.

 

[SpaSpaSpa]

GONE!

 

[james r]

How funny... I just finished writing a scathing, cogent post against the inclusion of erotic massage for US users... and now I'm about to write a post for the other side.

I think seeing all those may categories PLUS erotic massage makes it abundantly clear to people that erotic massage is only one type of massage. I'm sure no one things the headings for "Infant massage" or "Animal and pet massage" involve anything erotic. Uhh, hopefully.

Anyway, isn't that really our problem? Folks not understanding that there are different kinds of massage?

I'm sorry, the existence/prevalence/whatever of sex workers is not the problem. The guy who wants a happy ending is never going to want to be my client, whether erotic massage is 100% legal and open, or completely eradicated. He's never going to say "Welp, can't get my extra, guess I'll settle for an elbow in my piriformis."

The misunderstanding that we do something different than what they do... now there's the problem.

Am I wrong?

Sidebar: the laws against sex work are exactly what keep that misunderstanding alive, because sex workers are not allowed to be open and honest about what it is that they do.

Now, my two issues are:

- the site has categories for gender-based (and gender-dichotomous at that) massage. I will not list on sites that do this.
- the site links to other sites that do NOT make the aforementioned Real Problem clearer... quite the opposite. Undoing all the potential clearing up!

 

[darkangel_zheinah]

As far as I am concerned it is like someone ringing up and asking me how much extra to tile their bathroom - it's a service I don't provide. If I was getting a lot of phone calls about tiling I would be concerned about the volume of people that confused tiling with massage therapy, but I wouldn't look down on people that did provide tiling - they are providing a service, there is a demand for that service and they satisfy that demand. (and I hope "bathroom tiling" is not some code word for some strange fetish) I would be careful about where I placed my information so it was clear I had nothing to do with tiling. The continued phone calls about tiling would be boring, repetitive, eye rolling "errgh, it's another one".

People don't ring up a dentist looking for "extras", they don't ring up a bank looking for extras, they don't ring up physiotherapists looking for extras. They do ring up massage therapists. My website focuses on pregnancy and hot stone massage, I wish I had a dollar for every man that rang up to find out what exactly was massaged. I don't make any reference on the site to "full body massage". A large portion of those phone calls either just hang up once I make it clear what it is not, or continue with "how much extra?". Please let me know one other profession that gets that type of phone call on a regular basis. I AM located in AUSTRALIA where erotic massage is legal, and I can asure you a LOT of people a still confused.

As I mentioned earlier, erotic massage is legal in Australia in registered brothels. Any release of bodily fluids puts the premises under a much closer health and safety code. That’s not a judgement that what it is is wrong, it’s a health and safety issue. What does annoy me is that a lot men do not want to go to brothels for such services, for a variety of reasons, they don't want to be seen walking into one, they think it's cheating, they don't want to associate with sex workers, they think they can get it cheaper from an unregulated illegal place, they just don't realise erotic massage must be performed in a registered brothel. (note: this means any form of outcall erotic massage is illegal in most states in Australia). Whatever their reason for not wanting to go to a brothel, they don't ring up the dentist looking for it, they ring up someone that specialises in pregnancy massage and ask "how much extra?" BORING!!!!

A lot of the erotic massage places in Australia do not provide full service, hands are all that are used, but they are still licensed brothels. I'm pretty sure a lot of Canada and England work under similar legal requirements.

 

[kdoulos]

on a search engine aspect - you can't get child freindly web site recognition due to your erotic massage content. This will limit a lot of legit people that have high filtering on their computer.

You will have to spend a lot of money to get listed in Google results due to their current sandbox effect, but you showing google ads - no wonder you've managed to obtain so many hits, yet you say you haven't done any promotion yet?

Your web site description "Find massage therapy Masseurs masseuses bodywork massage services links by region. Get listed on the largest massage directory. All massage sites listed" is too long for the search engines.

Your keywords "Massage services ads links directories products sites gay erotic sensual bodywork appointments locally globally get clients finder oils all types massafe massahe worldwide list services massage wanted i want a massage all massage sites spas health modali" Why the emphasis on sexuality? There is no mention of any of the other categories you say you want to promote such as animals, senior, infant, etc?

I'm almost tempted to think this site is just a test for the google sandbox effect.

 

[Verbal]

I am curious to know if the links on your site are supplied by the linkee, or have they been accumulated and added by massageindustry?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Diane]

GONE!

 

[meeeeeepx3]

GONE!

 

[Pompal 09.]

hey massageindustry,

was your grandfather's pain alleviated by receiving a hand job or real massage therapy? if by real massage therapy and that's the real reason that you started this site, why would you add erotic massage?

and yes, people are that stupid. (in your earlier post) i get phone calls every week asking if i offer more than massage. if you read my website or anywhere else i'm listed, it should be clear to people that i do not offer "erotic massage" or "a full release". so yes, people really are stupid. you can't underestimate someone who think with what's in their pants.